“They’re at war for the American mind. That’s why you have TikTok out there. That’s why you have DeepSeek. That’s why you have the China Daily. They’re out there trying to control information and your perception of reality,” says Rep. Abe Hamadeh (R-Ariz.), who was recently elected for his first term.
His first bill seeks to ban the widespread distribution of the China Daily in the House of Representatives. China Daily is a registered foreign agent under the Foreign Agents Registration Act. In 2020, the newspaper was among many Chinese state media outlets designated as foreign missions in the United States.
Watch the video:
“It’s propaganda by a foreign government that’s trying to influence the highest echelons of the United States government. It’s unacceptable,” Hamadeh said.
Views expressed in this video are opinions of the host and the guest and do not necessarily reflect the views of The Epoch Times.
RUSH TRANSCRIPT
Jan Jekielek:
Congressman Abe Hamadeh, such a pleasure to have you on American Thought Leaders.
Congressman Abe Hamadeh:
Thank you for having me.
Mr. Jekielek:
First of all, congratulations on being elected. I understand you’re in the district where the TSMC factories have been built in Arizona, which is quite fitting for our discussion today. You’re working on a bill, which is a China Daily ban, first out of the blocks. Why?
Congressman Hamadeh:
On my first day in office here on Capitol Hill, I walk in and I see the typical newspapers—Washington Post and Politico, which have their own sets of issues. But then I see the China Daily News and I was reading through some of it. And you have to be pretty discerning to actually discover that it was owned by the Communist Chinese Party and that they’re registered foreign agents.
So I had my team look into that. It’s just fascinating to see the level of influence that the Communist Chinese have in our government. And I think it’s unacceptable and we should ban it, at least for it to be publicly distributed into the halls of Congress.
Mr. Jekielek:
I think a lot of people would say, yes, I see it around. It’s in our building, kind of all over the place. They just drop it off in front of people’s doors, not in front of our door. But they just say, yes, it’s around, but who really reads that?
Congressman Hamadeh:
People read it. That’s why they’re doing it, and they know how to target. They’re going to the halls of Congress, lobbyists and other organizations around Washington, D.C., because that’s how the communist Chinese know to put their influence into the United States’ highest levels of government and the people surrounding the government. You get a rubber band collection of all these newspapers that are coming in. When you put that China Daily at the same level as the New York Times, Wall Street Journal, all of them, it’s very scary because it’s propaganda by a foreign government that’s trying to influence the highest echelons of the United States government. It’s unacceptable.
Mr. Jekielek:
There was a time when it functioned as an insert in the New York Times, in the Washington Post, in the Wall Street Journal, at different times. And these media were paid millions of dollars for doing this. It was marked, people would say that it was marked as sponsored content or something like that.
Congressman Hamadeh:
Sure. I can’t stop what a private corporation does if they want to do that. But it goes to show you that the communist Chinese understand that America is for sale, sadly. They know how to influence and get themselves into the papers like New York Times, Wall Street Journal, all of them. But this isn’t a bill to ban it totally. If people want to read this paper on their own, they want to go online, they are totally free. If they want to subscribe personally to it, they are free to do it. But to have it distributed in the halls of Congress should not be allowed.
Mr. Jekielek:
You know, you have a background in military intelligence, among other things. So you’ve kind of seen a bit more under the hood than perhaps a lot of people. And I’m wondering how much your background has influenced, you know, your particular interest in this right out of the blocks.
Congressman Hamadeh:
Yes. I’m a son of immigrants. My family came from places like Syria, and I have family from Venezuela. So not so nice countries. So I understand that freedom is at stake and it’s always at stake. And it’s only one generation away from being totally extinguished. It’s up to us to defend it. When you look at the communist Chinese and their apparatus, what they’ve built, they try to act like they’re benevolent right now and that is so concerning.
When I was a military intelligence officer I served overseas in the US Army in Saudi Arabia. I remember at the time that Joe Biden had a really poor relationship with the Saudis. I was sitting with these Saudi generals and they would say, we could always team up with the Chinese. That was scary, because we built Saudi Arabia. Aramco is literally the Arabian/American oil company. That country exists because of us.
We can now see the level that they’re willing to possibly team up with China, because the United States wasn’t going to be friendly with them. We can now see how China is coming in with their soft power, not just in the Middle East, but in places like Africa. It shows the extent they’re willing to influence the world and to change our perception of them, which we know is a brutal, brutal regime.
But my district has all these Taiwanese companies moving in. They’re moving in their big factory and spending $50 billion. That’s just one company. We have also other companies that are related to the microchip industry all coming into my district. I understand the importance of the military aspect of making sure that we’re competing with China on the semiconductor, the microchips. My district also has the Luke Air Force Base, and I serve on the Armed Services Committee and the Veterans Affairs Committee. I want to take care of those who defend our freedom here at home.
Mr. Jekielek:
Let’s talk for a moment about the importance of getting this kind of extremely high-level chip production into America, which is a safer place than Taiwan right now.
Congressman Hamadeh:
Right. If you look at who actually started this, it was President Donald Trump. He was the one who really led the Taiwanese to move operations into the United States. Joe Biden tries to claim credit because they passed that bloated CHIPS Act. I think President Trump wants to renegotiate so much of it. But it was actually President Trump, Wilbur Ross, and so many others that were the ones who were convincing the Taiwanese companies to move their operations in the United States. Because, you know, China wants, they have aspirations, obviously, to take back Taiwan. And it put the United States in a very dangerous spot to have all these semiconductors being controlled by the Chinese.
But right now, TSMC is one of them. It’s obviously one of the biggest microchip industries. But they’re also moving into Europe. They’re diversifying geographically quite a bit. But we are glad to have them in the United States and in Arizona particularly. But, you know, I always said this on the campaign trail too, you know, Arizona is a great place for business and to have these companies move into it, but how could we have them come in when we don’t have a secure border?
It was just shocking to me because we understand the tens of thousands of communist Chinese who are flooding our southern border under Joe Biden was unacceptable. Obviously, as an intelligence officer, I understand that my district would have been a target of intelligence gathering operations. That’s something I was really making sure to hit home on when I’ve met with so many representatives in Arizona from these companies. The reason why we have to secure a border is precisely to protect from intelligence gatherings from foreign adversaries.
Mr. Jekielek:
Just a bit more on the CHIPS Act. It put major export controls on some of these most premier value chips. It seems like from what we’ve been hearing about DeepSeek, it seems like Communist China has been able to evade these export controls. There have been allegations of something like 10,000 in NVIDIA chips and things like that for doing the things that the CHIPS Act was trying to stop.
Congressman Hamadeh:
Yes, I think that’s exactly right. That shows you the extent to which the communist Chinese have the ability to influence, and the ability to skirt around the best intentioned laws that we’ve got. It’s because they understand that this is a race for AI. This is a race for the chip industry. If you look at how they were acquiring those NVIDIA chips, a lot of it was going into Singapore or other countries and invading it that way. It’s sophisticated, and you have to give them credit. As an intelligence officer, you never underestimate your enemy. You can’t. If you do, that’s game over. So we always have to be constantly on guard with it.
That’s exactly why the China Daily piece comes into it. Because if we allow that type of influence to happen in the halls of a Congress, the People’s House, what does it say about us as a government? Can you imagine us putting our propaganda like Voice of America into the communist Chinese meetings? They would never tolerate that and they don’t tolerate it. Yet, here we are. We’re tolerating that the Communist Chinese are able to influence and infiltrate in that aspect.
Mr. Jekielek:
There is also a symbolic element here. They say, we’re here right in the highest levels of where the US lawmakers sit, where they make their decisions. We’re here, and we have that influence. That’s a statement.
Congressman Hamadeh:
Absolutely. They understand that if they’re able to get their message out, they’re able to influence not just the congressman. I’ve got a staff and I’ve got a team, if they’re able to infiltrate and get some of the staffers that are quite young. They may not know when they’re receiving the China Daily. They may not know that this is actually paid for by a foreign government. So if they’re able to influence the staffers who then go ahead and influence their boss, the congressman, that’s a big problem.
I’ve met with Uyghurs and I’ve seen the plight they are going through. Again, the staffers continue to read this. It could influence a vote, for instance, or it could influence sanctions on the communist Chinese. It moves far past just information warfare to where there are real life consequences happening.
As an intelligence officer, somebody who served in the military, you have to understand that propaganda information is the new reality of warfare. We’re seeing that on the battlefields in Ukraine and Israel and everywhere else now. It is really a battle of getting that message out and what the truth is.
That’s why it’s so important to have honest, fair news organizations out there. I look at this situation and what the communist Chinese have been doing. Their apparatus is sophisticated, and you have to give them credit for it. And if we don’t combat this, what is next for them? That’s what scares me. They understand the level and sphere of influence that they’re doing.
I serve on the Veterans Affairs Committee, and something that I discovered is that a lot of these veteran service organizations, which are amazing organizations that want to help the veterans, and oftentimes what the communist Chinese do is they actually go in and give a donation to the veteran service organizations under TikTok, for instance.
That’s something that we had to deal with is that TikTok was giving money to veterans organizations. When those veterans want to defend TikTok, they don’t even know that they’re being used in that way. That is sad to see and you have to be constantly on guard about it.
Mr. Jekielek:
Most of these veterans organizations are cash-strapped. You can imagine them saying, why shouldn’t I take that money? It helps them, right? But then it engenders that goodwill later on, and that’s what is being bought.
Congressman Hamadeh:
It’s so sad. It’s so sad that veterans organizations have to even raise money from a foreign government or what they don’t even know is a foreign government in order to operate. We should be taking care of our veterans. We should make sure that their veterans organizations are self-sufficient.
They’re able to see where they could influence with soft power, communist Chinese. Some of these other countries apitalize on the fact Americans love our veterans. To have an ability to influence a veteran’s organizations, or to take a position on a bill or a resolution, that’s powerful.
That’s why they do it. So many of these groups don’t realize that they’re being used in that way. That’s why it’s important for us to say, you are part of an intelligence operation. You may not know it, and this is the reason why. So making sure we get that out there is important.
Mr. Jekielek:
I looked at the China Daily while preparing for this discussion. You make a really good point. There’s no suggestion there of any sort that there’s anything other than kind of a harmonious life within China. But what’s not in there is perhaps even more important than what is in there.
Congressman Hamadeh:
It’s beyond just the free press. This isn’t the free press. This is a foreign government operated newspaper. It’s in English for a reason. Why? Because they want to influence the United States, specifically the people who make the key decisions in our government. It is designed there to present a viewpoint that everything is going well in China. They’re talking about AI and how China is going to be leading the AI revolution with Deep Seek and all that. That is their psyop. That is their propaganda piece. And that’s why we have to be on guard against it.
Mr. Jekielek:
You said America is for sale. That could be viewed as quite a contentious statement. Is America really for sale? What do you mean by that?
Congressman Hamadeh:
It’s obvious. Look at our farmland that we sell to the communist Chinese near air bases and near military bases. This is something that other countries would never tolerate. It’s something where we have to put our patriotic duty ahead of the dollar. That’s something that our corporations should be doing. It’s something that every individual should be doing. It’s key. I respect other countries in that regard that they would never sacrifice their honor for the dollar.
I hate the word global corporations, because these corporations started off in America. You know, they were built off American workers. They were built because of the laws we have here, because of capitalism and the free enterprise system. Then they go and capitulate to a country like the communist Chinese.
The Chinese are very smart. They’ve shifted away from Marxist Leninism. Now it’s market Leninism, right? It’s so fascinating to see how they’ve been operating and maneuvering into the global marketplace. When they take advantage of the United States laws in order to influence, it’s a big problem. But it’s something that we as a culture need to be on guard against.
Mr. Jekielek:
Let’s dig into the nuts and bolts of the bill. You mentioned FARA, which is the Foreign Agents Registration Act, also in here. Just explain to me how the bill works.
Congressman Hamadeh:
This one specifically targets the communist Chinese. It prevents somebody who’s registered as a foreign agent that is tied with the communist Chinese from distributing. It also prevents these third party contractors, because that’s ultimately who is passing out these newspapers, from distributing the papers in the House of Representatives.
Mr. Jekielek:
Do you think there will be other acts of this nature that will follow? Because I guess China Daily is not the only type of media that’s influenced by a foreign government out there.
Congressman Hamadeh:
We kept it limited to the communist Chinese, because it’s a good gauge to see how far deep the communist Chinese have reached into the halls of government. That’s why I did it. I could have kept it broad. We could have kept it for all FARA, which eventually I hope to see happen. But I wanted to assess who signs onto the piece of legislation and who votes for it. I thought it would be an interesting test to see how deep the communist Chinese infiltration is.
Mr. Jekielek:
This is a resolution and often resolutions are described as not having a lot of teeth. It’s just kind of a statement from Congress. But in this instance, it actually does have teeth, because the congressional building will have to abide by it. So that’s a very interesting use of the resolution.
Congressman Hamadeh:
Yes, exactly, because it becomes easier to pass, right? Why I chose the communist Chinese and specifically targeted China Daily is because once it’s on the House floor, I want to see these members of Congress trying to justify allowing a newspaper that is foreign controlled by the communist Chinese. I’m very curious to see that. I’m an intelligence guy. It’s about the second and third order of effects and looking at the consequences, both intentional consequences, and unintended consequences. We have to police our own in the halls of Congress, and that’s what it intends to do.
Mr. Jekielek:
You mentioned TikTok and DeepSeek. How do you view these apps on the phones of Americans and computers of Americans?
Congressman Hamadeh:
I understand that many Americans like TikTok. I’ve used TikTok before. President Trump seems to like TikTok. It seems to get the truth out in so many ways. However, it becomes concerning when you understand that the TikTok platform and so many of these others have an algorithm, an ability to influence the end user in a way that could be quite destructive. DeepSeek is something that, as we mentioned earlier, the ability for it to wipe about a trillion dollars, half-a-trillion dollars from our marketplace based on conjecture.
We don’t know the reality of Deep Seek, how much it really costs them to produce, what the chips that they’re actually using for it. For them to be able to wipe out that market share of the United States, half-a-trillion, that’s bigger than the GDP of most countries. That’s the scary aspect of it.
This is information warfare. This is propaganda. This is psychological warfare. You could wipe out a lot of Americans’ bank accounts and their investments because of that ability. Then at that point, since the marketplace is open, who knows if you had these foreign countries come in and buy the dip, as they say, in order to influence the market in that aspect. It’s so fascinating to watch. It’s something that we will be watching in the future.
Mr. Jekielek:
I had an interview recently with Nicolas Chaillan, the former chief software officer of the Air Force and Space Force, who has an AI company himself right now. He runs tests on all the models, including DeepSeek, which he air-gapped, put into its own place, because of course he wasn’t going to go on the actual DeepSeek platform. He found it wasn’t a particularly great model.
He believes they just tested it against the benchmarks. The benchmarks looked really good. He says it’s a fine model, but the American models are stronger. To your point, absolutely, this was an information op. It’s almost like the case in point example of how effective propaganda can be. Is there a better example off the top of my head? Half-a-trillion dollars, that hurts, right?
Congressman Hamadeh:
Absolutely. Again, imagine the China Daily pushing that out there and the media pushing out there that Deep Seek suddenly has taken over AI. That is the information that we have to be on guard against. We were talking about this earlier to see the level of influence the communist Chinese has. It’s not just in Washington, D.C. It is in the heartland. There is the bioweapons lab that had the ability to produce another type of disease out in California.
Just recently, we see the ports in L.A. that have communist Chinese infiltration, and as well as the secret police stations that are occurring in our cities, as well as the Confucius Institutes in our education systems. That is the level of information warfare that we are fighting, and that so many Americans want to act like is not happening. But it is happening. And it’s not because they’re just trying to export the cultural traditions of China,
which, of course, has a very rich tradition that has been utterly destroyed by the ideology of communism.
Mr. Jekielek:
To your point, years ago, we knew it was approximately $10 billion that was being spent on these influence operations, United Front operations, influencing local communities, both Chinese and otherwise, through Chinese agents of influence in these communities. The scale of it today, we think it’s something more like 20 billion, perhaps even more than that. And that’s not even talking about these operations like DeepSeek or TikTok and
everything else. The scale of it is almost unfathomable.
Congressman Hamadeh:
It’s not just information warfare. There’s a war going on here in the United States with fentanyl. In my district, in Arizona, a border state, I see the fentanyl coming in from the chemical compound being shipped in from the communist Chinese into the hands of the drug cartels. Then they go in and ship this all across the United States and get the American citizens drugged up and addicted.
That’s why President Trump has been doing so successfully with these tariff threats and with going after our border countries like Canada, Mexico, but also the communist Chinese. It’s so critical. I want the American people to understand that we may not have asked for this, but for this type of war, but they’re at war with us and they’re at war for the American mind.
That’s why you have TikTok out there. That’s why you have DeepSeek. That’s why you have the China Daily. They’re out there trying to control information and your perception of reality. And we have to understand that. Talk to people who live through the horrors of the communist and Maoist revolution. That’s how we keep this reality and what’s real alive and for us to understand to fight back.
That’s why I’m a member of Congress. I’m the son of immigrants from Syria. I have family from Venezuela. I understand that if freedom is extinguished here at home, there is no place to go. So we can never allow ourselves to bend the knee to the Marxist communists.
Mr. Jekielek:
I want to discuss the new foreign policy directions that the Trump administration has taken. You have the Secretary of State Rubio in South America. China comes up. We’re talking about these border deals with the tariffs in Canada and Mexico. There seems to be some pretty serious negotiations happening within moments of these tariffs going into place, arguably also both really about China. I’m curious what you think about this. The Greenland question is very much about China as well in a lot of ways. So tell me your thoughts on this.
Congressman Hamadeh:
I’m glad you framed it in that way, because it is true. The nexus of the communist Chinese is global. You’re talking about the Panama Canal, something that the United States built with our workers, and yet the Panama government had a memorandum of understanding to allow the Chinese to operate it, essentially.
When you saw Marco Rubio go down there and meet with the leader there. We are going to change this ship around because if we don’t, the communist Chinese are going to totally capitalize their soft power and influence and take over all of these governments, which they have done so successfully.
That’s something that you have to credit to President Trump. He understands what’s going on. He’s been saying this for a while, too. This doesn’t just happen overnight. This has been going on for decades. You know, there’s a lot of people who have been ringing the alarms about what’s been going on. But it took President Trump to take office and to actually execute on this plan.
Mr. Jekielek:
Congressman Abe Hamadeh, such a pleasure to have you on the show.
Congressman Hamadeh:
Thank you.
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