“I was born in a village where we were subjected to attacks on a monthly basis, or yearly basis. The government troops [would] come and burn down the villages—kill whoever that they will find. … When I see what happened recently in Israel, where they went and burned down, and shot people—that’s exactly what I experienced when I was a child.”
When Simon Deng was nine years old, he was kidnapped from South Sudan and brought to the North. He was given to an Arab family as a “gift,” and enslaved for more than three years.
“I’m here talking to you as a living proof of the slavery which still exists,” says Mr. Deng.
25 years ago, Charles Jacobs helped to liberate tens of thousands of slaves in Africa, and received an award from Coretta Scott King for his work.
“We went to the slave redemption sites, and we talked to the survivors who were brought back. And they told us their stories,” he says.
Today, Mr. Deng and Mr. Jacobs are cofounders of the newly-formed African Jewish Alliance, which raises awareness about the threat posed by Jihadism.
Watch the video:
“Hamas is no different than Boko Haram in Nigeria,“ says Mr. Jacobs. ”It’s one front in Israel, but it belongs to a global movement. And people need to know that.”
Views expressed in this video are opinions of the host and guests, and do not necessarily reflect the views of The Epoch Times.
FULL TRANSCRIPT
Jan Jekielek: Simon Deng, Charles Jacobs, it’s such a pleasure to have you on American Thought Leaders.
Charles Jacob: Thank you.
Simon Deng: Thank you for having us.
Mr. Jekielek: Let’s start with you, Simon. Many Americans and people in the West believe that slavery is an issue of the distant past. But you’re actually living proof that’s not true, and that it exists today, so why don’t we start with your story?
Mr. Deng: Thank you for having me here. I am here to talk to you as living proof that slavery still exists in Sudan. As a child, I was kidnapped from my loved ones, taken to northern Sudan, and given away as a gift. I became a slave in Sudan when I was nine years old.
Mr. Jekielek: You are originally from South Sudan, which is now a separate country. Can you provide some background on what is happening there? For many people, the idea of slavery is something they find difficult to understand unless given more context.
Mr. Deng: Yes, that is true. When we talk about Sudan, we are talking about a country where there is no media and no cameras on the ground to film the footage, especially when it concerns people who are so far away that nobody even acknowledges their existence.
Sudan has been at war for a very long time. The conflicts between the northern Sudanese and the southern Sudanese started in 1955. The northern Sudanese fought against the southern Sudanese before the secession that occurred in 2011.
There was a temporary peace agreement in 1972, in which the sitting government in Sudan was believed to be a government for all people. Unfortunately, it turned out to be a government for a particular group of people—Muslims and Arabs in the north. Africans in the south were being ignored and disregarded.
The same government that had previously signed a peace agreement with the southerners in 1982 later canceled the agreement, declaring Sudan an Islamic state aligned with Iran. Sudan became the first African country on the continent to become an Islamic state and subjected everyone to Sharia law. This made the southern Sudanese feel like second-class citizens, with Muslims being prioritized.
In 1982, a war broke out in which two million southern Sudanese were killed due to a declared jihad against the infidels. It was a brutal conflict, with individuals from other countries volunteering to fight in the name of jihad, including Osama bin Laden, who was in Khartoum at the time executing this policy. The creation of al-Qaeda was tied to this conflict, with Osama bin Laden’s soldiers fighting against the southern Sudanese.
Slavery still persists in southern Sudan, but it goes largely unnoticed since there are no cameras or journalists present, and access to the region requires permission from a government that does not want outsiders to see what is happening.
Mr. Jekielek: Charles, I'll turn to you soon, since I know you have extensive knowledge on this topic. Simon, could you please share what occurred in your village?
Mr. Deng: I was born in a village that was subject to attacks on a monthly and yearly basis. Government troops would come and burn down the villages, killing whoever they found. Usually, we had to run to the bush and then wait for our father to come back and rebuild the village. To build a village, you only need a few things, like some wood to cut to build huts. That’s where we were. We were not in a city like other places.
When I see what happened recently in Israel, where they went and burned down and shot people, it reminds me of exactly what I experienced as a child. It’s especially disturbing when the people doing the shooting and killing claim it is in the name of Allahu Akbar, which means “God is great”. It makes me wonder what kind of God they believe in. That’s exactly what I experienced as a child.
Mr. Jekielek: Were you captured?
Mr. Deng: My dad decided to take his family to the capital city, Malakal. We were in a village at the time. In that town, one of my neighbors was leaving and going to northern Sudan. He asked me to help him with his luggage. As a child, if someone asked for help, I would do it. He told me to sit next to his luggage on the train while he went to get something in the market. He didn’t show up by the time the train was leaving, and I became terrified. He eventually found me and calmed me down and explained that we couldn’t go back once the train left the station, so we would continue all the way to Kosti, a city in northern Sudan. He promised me that when we arrived in Kosti, he would put me on another train going back south, which was a lie.
When we arrived in Kosti, we were walking into the city with a northern Muslim man with three African kids with him. That’s how I ended up in his hands. My neighbor gave me away to him as a gift.
Mr. Jekielek: The last part of the story is about how you managed to escape. I understand you were there for about four years.
Mr. Deng: Three-and-a-half years passed. My slave master’s family had a son who needed to go to junior high school. In his village in northern Sudan there was no junior high school, so they had to move to Kosti. One day in Kosti I saw three Shilluk gentlemen with the Shilluk tribal marks, which I myself have today. At that time, I didn’t have those tribal marks.
In fact, during my time as a slave, I was given an offer to convert to Islam, to be given an Arab name, and to become their son. I was willing to convert to Islam if it would save me from the daily hardships I endured. I was even willing to take on an Arab name if it meant being treated like a human being. However, the idea of becoming their son was incredibly difficult for me.
In my mind, even as a child, I had a loving mother and father. I had a wonderful family. I had been kidnapped against my will and no one knew what had happened to me. How could I give up my identity? During that time, there was only one word I knew—yes. I couldn’t say no to anything, not even to the torture I had to endure.
I always told them that I would let them know later, buying time. I relied on two things—hope and faith that someday someone would come and prevent another child from going through what I had experienced. That hope and faith came when their son had to go to junior high school. It was in the city of Kosti where I saw the three gentlemen with the Shilluk tribal marks. This was what I had been waiting for.
I approached them with so much happiness on my face because of the tribal marks they had on their foreheads, something I didn’t have. Since I couldn’t communicate in their language, all I could do was speak to them in Shilluk. Unfortunately, one of them told me they were from northern Shilluk, while I came from southern Shilluk. He said they didn’t know my mom or my dad, even though I had mentioned their names and the name of my village. I assumed they knew. Hearing this, tears started to run down my face and I felt disappointed.
But then, another person came and comforted me, saying that while they didn’t know my mom, they knew someone from the village I mentioned. They promised to go and meet that person and they would come back to meet me the following day. True to their word, I was waiting for them, and there they were. I couldn’t believe my eyes. It was someone from my village.
That person broke down in tears upon seeing me. For two-and-a-half years, my dad had been looking for me. My dad had offered ten cows to anyone who could provide information about his missing son. Two-and-a-half years passed, but nobody came forward to claim the reward. My parents organized a funeral for their lost and deceased child, and this is why he was crying.
Then he warned me not to reveal to my slave master that I had encountered someone I knew, as he feared I would be taken to an undisclosed location. I kept my promise. He was the one who rescued me from slavery and brought me to freedom. Without him, I wouldn’t be here today, talking to you as a free man in the United States.
Mr. Jekielek: What an incredible story. Charles, you’ve dedicated your life to liberating slaves from the region. I even heard that you received an award from Coretta Scott King for your efforts. This work has been ongoing for decades. Can you explain how this kind of slavery is similar or different from what we know in North America?
Mr. Jacobs: I actually first learned about this issue on an airplane. Back then, smartphones didn’t exist, so they provided magazines for passengers to read. I was reading an article in Newsweek which stated that one could buy and sell a black woman for $30 in Sudan and other places. I was shocked.
I couldn’t believe that such a practice still existed in my time. This article was buried on page 19. Why wasn’t an article about the buying and selling of human beings given more prominence? This made me question the collective mindset that prevented certain realities from being acknowledged.
Through my research, I discovered that slavery was prevalent in Sudan, Mauritania, and many other places. However, human rights organizations seemed to relegate these reports to the bottom of their agenda. There were no large-scale protests calling for the liberation of these slaves, unlike the marches against apartheid in South Africa. While apartheid was undoubtedly horrific, I couldn’t understand why the human rights community and the media seemed indifferent to people like Simon.
Mr. Deng: I remember sitting down and talking with Bishop Macram Gassis, who was exiled from Sudan for speaking out against slavery in the country.
Mr. Jacobs: Then I started the American Anti-Slavery Group and I received a lot of interest from decent people. I wrote an article in the New York Times that broke the story about slavery in Mauritania and Sudan, and I began building an organization. As the research director of the American Anti-Slavery Group, I represent black chattel slaves, a people many Americans believed had long ago vanished.
Our organization is made up of American and African abolitionists; black and white, Christian, Muslim, and Jewish. For three years, we have been working to bring attention to the issue of the present-day slave trade and advocate for the removal of Sudan from the United Nations. It is unacceptable to have a country that enslaves and kills people being represented in the United Nations.
We gained support from organizations like the NAACP and influential individuals like Eleanor Holmes Norton, an important black congresswoman. Many people were genuinely concerned about this issue. The Arab Islamic regime declared a jihad against black, Christian southern Sudan, and militias would attack African villages.
They would just shoot the men, because this is not the kind of slavery that we once had. You don’t need musculature. They didn’t take them because they wanted them for rice harvests or cotton picking. This was all for concubinage and humiliation and spreading their culture through the womb of the captured slave women. It was a different kind of slavery.
At one point, I met John Eibner from Christian Solidarity International [CSI]. He became a hero in this fight. His organization figured out how to buy back slaves that had been taken by the North from the South. They paid cooperating Arabs near the border, who did not want war with the South, to retrieve people like Simon and bring them back.
The cost was around $35 or $50 per slave. We raised tens of thousands of dollars in the U.S., with support from Europe as well. We garnered media attention, and even children were contributing to the cause. There were heartwarming stories on NBC and CBS about kids donating money to bring back slaves.
Eventually, I traveled to South Sudan illegally, passing through Kenya as it was not possible to travel through the north. I joined Christian Solidarity International on this journey. We walked for half-a-day to reach a clearing under a large shade tree, where we encountered hundreds of women and children slaves that had been returned and who were waiting for us. Did they truly know they would be redeemed? It must have been a horrifying night for them. They were told they would be freed. Why would they believe that?
Eibner arrived with a duffel bag filled with cash. It was the most incredible scene I’ve ever witnessed. He sat down next to the Arab retrievers and paid and paid, and then it was all done. I’m getting emotional just thinking about it. He stood up, and speaking through a Dinka translator (mostly Dinka people were enslaved), he then said, “You are blessed by God. Don’t dwell on what they made you do. Good people from the West have paid for your freedom. Now, you are free.” I have only experienced this feeling three or four times in my life.
When this happens, their families, brought nearby, start screaming and jumping and dancing, and I dance with them. It was the most amazing thing I’ve ever done, aside from marrying my wife. CSI has saved tens of thousands of people in this way. Eventually, the word reached President George Bush, and he compelled Khartoum to hold a plebiscite allowing the South to decide whether they wanted to remain, considering that the region is predominantly black African Christian. Unsurprisingly, they voted 99 percent in favor of separation.
That’s how we have the newest nation in the world, South Sudan. Now, the same thing is happening in Nigeria. It is also occurring in roughly 10 African countries, including Mali, Somalia, and Burkina Faso, as this expanding and militant ideology takes hold.
Unfortunately, not enough attention is being paid to this issue. Therefore, we have formed the African Jewish Alliance to address this. We are here in Congress, speaking with members, and inaugurating our efforts.
What happened to the Jews on October 7th of last year is exactly what I witnessed in Sudan. It follows the same pattern; ransacking villages, shooting people, burning them alive, and gang-raping girls before taking them as slaves. We recently celebrated the return of four Israeli hostages, and one of the girls, Noah, reminds me of the girls I interviewed in Sudan who were survivors of the slave raids. It’s the same horrendous situation.
We spoke to the survivors who were brought back, and they shared their stories with us. This beautiful girl told me that when the jihadists came to her village and massacred people, they lined up the girls and selected one to rape. She resisted, and they slit her throat in front of the other girls. No one else resisted. They told me that they would chop off the feet of anyone who tried to run away. They also threatened to burn people’s huts with them inside. It’s difficult to listen to such horrifying things.
The one thing the jihadists didn’t do, unlike Hamas, was use GoPro cameras. Now, if you watch what Hamas did to the Jews, you can see what they did to the blacks. We formed an organization that includes Igbos, Darfuris, South Sudanese, and Nigerians, with plans to include Mauritanians. These people that we are working with live in the United States and are an important and powerful constituency.
Decent American people need to be aware that blacks and Jews are being tortured, murdered, and enslaved by the same ideology. In other words, Hamas is no different from Boko Haram in Nigeria. It may be one front in Israel, but it is part of a global movement, and people must know this.
Mr. Jekielek: Your organization purchased tens of thousands of people for $35 to $50, if I recall correctly. Somehow, that fact really brings it home, doesn’t it?
Mr. Jacobs: The abolitionists in America did the same thing. They bought Frederick Douglass’ freedom because he was in the North and was the biggest voice for abolition there. As an escaped slave, they were afraid that Southerners would come and capture him. Therefore, they purchased his freedom. As a supposedly advancing human culture, we should have moved beyond such practices. Yet, they persist, but it is considered politically incorrect to acknowledge it when it’s not done by Westerners.
Mr. Jekielek: I have some knowledge about South Sudan. I have known several Commissioners on International Religious Freedom. Nadine Maenza informed me about significant progress in South Sudan regarding religious freedom. However, there is also an ongoing war. What is the current situation over there?
Mr. Deng: When we talk about Southern Sudan, the country has returned to turmoil, with the Sudanese government fighting among themselves. The capital city, Khartoum, has been completely destroyed. It is a brutal war that forced the previous government to relocate the capital to Port Sudan in the east in order to avoid the chaos in Khartoum.
In terms of religious freedom in the south, yes, there is some freedom, but Southern Sudan is not at peace internally. It is engulfed in its own war to the extent that the international community has grown weary of it. The United Nations is providing protection. Hundreds of thousands are in UN camps in the capital city of Juba, fearing their own government. The citizens of the country are being protected by the United Nations within their own country. This is happening in South Sudan. In the other part of Sudan, things are not going well. In other words, the issue of religion and freedom is not really the question. The question is how to survive today and live for tomorrow in these two countries.
Mr. Jacobs: It’s a tribal society with many tribes. The tribes united to fight off the Arab Islamic North. They came together and defeated a jihad, winning their own freedom. However, as soon as they achieved their freedom, the tribes began fighting each other. It’s really a tragedy.
Mr. Deng: Two years after independence, we killed half-a-million of our own people in the South alone. It’s a topic that nobody talks about. I even had to go on a hunger strike in Washington for 45 days to force President Obama to take action. I strongly believe that southern Sudan is an American responsibility. You cannot abandon a child that you helped deliver.
Eventually, after realizing that my life was in danger, President Obama decided to go to Ethiopia to tell the warring faction to make peace. This led to a peace agreement, even involving President Salva Kiir Mayardit.
Mr. Jekielek: It is a very complex reality.
Mr. Jacobs: Indeed, slavery still persists in Africa, and it is important for Americans to understand what is happening. That is why we are doing the work we do. The Nigerian-American community approached me and explained that they saw parallels between what’s happening in Israel and what’s happening to them. Nobody seems to care about their plight.
We started working together because they face the same enemy, with the same cries of “Allahhu Akbar,” and the same violent shootings, murders, rapes, and kidnappings. In addition to the Nigerian-American community, we have now added other African groups. I am just discovering that this is happening in numerous African countries, around 10 that I know of. Some of them are Burkina Faso, Somalia, Mali, Democratic Republic of Congo, and Mozambique.
Africa might be the epicenter of Islamist extremism in the world today. If this ideology takes over the entire continent and forcibly converts Africans to a faith that is not their own, and if millions are killed, raped, slaughtered, kidnapped, and enslaved, it will be a new world. Slavery has existed in numerous societies throughout history. The Chinese, Romans, Greeks, Africans, Muslims, Jews, and Christiansn all had slaves.
We take pride in the West for being the ones who abolished slavery. How can we continue if we allow this to happen in Sudan, where young boys were abducted and later killed when they became old enough to be dangerous?
Mr. Deng: When we came to this country and tried to inform Americans, especially elected officials, that we were being targeted by radicals due to our Christian faith, we were met with disbelief. We refused to be forced into Islamization and Arabization. People didn’t listen to us. In fact, elected officials at that time accused us of paranoia and of trying to involve them in our war, even though we were warning them about what Osama bin Laden was doing in Sudan. Al-Qaeda was actually established in Khartoum, an African country, not in Afghanistan. We, the people of southern Sudan, were left vulnerable to slaughter in the name of ideology.
Similarly, the situation is the same in Israel. What is happening to us mirrors what has happened in Israel. It is crucial for people around the world to not be naive about the ideology of Islamic radicals. They should look back at what occurred in Africa in the past. While America was fighting Osama bin Laden, he was establishing a base in Somalia, known as Al-Shabaab. He then proceeded to attack American embassies in Kenya and Tanzania. In the eyes of Arab Muslims, a black person by nature is considered a slave.
Mr. Jacobs: The Arab word for black, abib, is the same word for slave.
Mr. Deng: Yes, abid. But if that’s the case, shouldn’t we come together and denounce this? That’s the purpose of the African Jewish Alliance.
Mr. Jekielek: You mentioned that Israel played a role in assisting the South Sudanese.
Mr. Deng: During the first war, from 1955 to 1972, when the southern Sudanese were fighting against the government in Khartoum with their spears, they had no one to support them. It was the Israeli Mossad that provided them with logistical support so they could defend themselves. Understanding that no neighboring country at that time was willing to help the southern Sudanese, we will never forget the generosity of the state of Israel.
When October 7th came, everyone was fleeing Israel. Everybody was running out of Israel, but I was rushing in. A gentleman on the airplane asked me why I was going to Israel when everyone else was leaving. I asked him where he was going, and he replied that Israel was his home. I explained that these were my people, and I was going there to stand in solidarity with them. I wanted to be there for the victims’ families, to mourn with them and share in their grief. That’s exactly what I did.
I walked from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem in solidarity. On this journey, I was joined by a few southern Sudanese who were in Israel as refugees. Even though I didn’t know them, they volunteered to walk with me to Jerusalem. I am grateful for what Israel has given us. We would have done more, but we didn’t have the means. We are not a government. We are a people who will never forget the friendships and the kindness shown to us by Israel.
Mr. Jacobs: That is an amazing story. It’s important to note that the Mossad and IDF [Israel Defense Forces] went into southern Sudan to see the atrocities being committed against the black Christian community by jihadists. They dropped supplies, guns, and machine guns, and also provided training to the Anyanya fighters.
Mr. Deng: Not the SPLA [Southern Sudan People’s Defense Forces], but the Anyanya.
Mr. Jacobs: Yes, this was before the SPLA. They trained them to fight. If Israel were not besieged and in danger today, they would be the first to help countries like Nigeria, Somalia, Mali, and Sudan again. This event in history was truly remarkable, though very few know about it.
Mr. Deng: I believe this African-Jewish alliance is connected to that.
Mr. Jekielek: What are your thoughts on the recent events in LA? Can you tell me what you saw happen?
Mr. Jacobs: A few days ago in Los Angeles, people were going to a synagogue when they were attacked by hundreds of individuals wearing keffiyehs. It’s unclear how many leftists and Islamists were among them, but they assaulted and beat the people at the synagogue. It’s terrifying that in America, Jews are being attacked. Jews in America believed it was a safe haven, where they would be treated better than in Europe.
However, the LA police did nothing to stop this crowd from hurting Jews, which is extremely troubling. College campuses are also hostile environments for Jewish students, as progressive individuals influenced by their professors often harbor hatred towards us. Some of us knew it was coming, but none of us knew it would be set on fire on October 7th.
The Jewish community is in shock, because anti-Semitism is a mind virus that shape-shifts. Whatever is considered the worst sin of any human epoch, the Jews are charged with. When it was about religion, it was deicide or not following Muhammad. When race science promoted the idea of white superiority, the Jews were slandered as racial vermin.
When nationalism was the only virtuous way, the Jews were hated for being stateless cosmopolites. Now, in the age of globalism, we are hated for having a state.
It is no longer socially acceptable to claim that Jews are an inferior race or that we control everything. Instead, the focus is on portraying the state of Israel as the biggest sin of our time. This new defamation has been promoted by the college professoriate, which largely leans towards the extreme Left. Unfair media coverage has also perpetuated this narrative.
Many young people who attend elite colleges hold misguided views on the Middle East. There is an alliance between the Left and radical Muslims, known as the red-green alliance, which is driving Jews out of Europe. France may soon see a significant decline in its Jewish population, as may England.
The issue at hand is a new way of discussing the human condition, often referred to as woke or progressive or intersectional. It divides the world into two categories: oppressors and oppressed, with a racial undertone. White people are labeled as the perpetual oppressors, while non-white people are always seen as the oppressed.
Jewish people are now considered white, although historically, we were not part of the master race. This irony is evident. This viewpoint makes it difficult to recognize acts of evil committed by non-white individuals, such as the ongoing atrocities in Africa against black people and Jews. It is puzzling why someone who claims to be anti-racist would not take action to free black slaves today. Evil exists in every person, regardless of race.
Mr. Deng: The world should not be naive and fall asleep, especially after what the U.S. went through during the Civil War. We don’t act and call it for what it is when we can see the danger is coming towards us. Americans thought this was far away, even when we told them that these things are going to come, because of the eyes of those people with the ideology of Islam.
In the eyes of those people with the ideology of Islam, you are the head of infidels and you cannot call yourself the superpower of the world. Whereby, if you call yourself a Christian country, you can’t ignore us. But we, the people of southern Sudan, are being slaughtered because we refused to surrender, we refused to convert to Islamization, so jihad was declared on us.
What you don’t understand here is that this thing is not only on us, it affects everybody. Those radicals and terrorists are being backed by Iran, whose goal is to Islamize everybody by force. If you don’t stop this, you will be subjected to it. Please wake up! There are about 11 terrorist groups in the continent of Africa today being backed and funded by Iran. I don’t know about Asia, and I don’t know about here in this country.
Do you believe that Iran is not funding terrorists in this country? They are. If you live here, you might be surprised tomorrow. Something bigger than October 7 can happen somewhere else. Where? I have no idea.
You claim to be against racism. What in the world would stop you from acting against the enslavement of black people? Just focus on that for one day. After that, what happened? Did the girls come home? If they did not, where are you, first lady? Why do you just say one word and then turn a blind eye? We need to bring the girls home. We also need the hostages back home in Israel.
Mr. Jekielek: Simon, please remind us of this scenario, bring the girls home.
Mr. Deng: When Michelle Obama heard that schools in Nigeria were raided by jihadists and black girls were kidnapped and taken captive, enslaved, and made wives of their captives, she was properly astonished and shocked. She started a campaign called #bringbackourgirls. That’s how most Americans got to know about what was happening in Nigeria. But then, for some strange reason, she let it go and went silent. She shouldn’t have. We invite her back because we need to bring back all the girls.
Mr. Deng: Slavery is evil. It’s the demonization of a fellow human being by a human being. We are all made in the image of God, whether you’re black or white. No human being is entitled to own another fellow human being as a piece of property. That should be denounced by any person, whether you’re Chinese, Asian, African, or European. It’s not good. It’s brutal. It’s inhumane.
Mr. Jekielek: Charles, a final thought as we finish up?
Mr. Jacobs: The world believed that it had defeated slavery, but it didn’t. When it fought slavery, it did so by moral teachings, by persuasion, and by war. The moral people in the world said to themselves, this is worth fighting for. This is worth risking everything for, to stop this human bondage.
Mr. Jekielek: Simon Deng, Charles Jacobs, it’s such a pleasure to have you on the show.
Mr. Deng: Thank you very much.
Mr. Jacobs: Thank you for having us.
Mr. Jekielek: Thank you all for joining Simon Deng, Charles Jacobs, and me on this episode of American Thought Leaders. I’m your host, Jan Jekielek.
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